The Resistance as Oppressor
There are rival articles on the new realities in Lebanon in the New York Times and Washington Post today. Both speak of a massive Hizbollah victory but ask, at what cost?
At 9:30 p.m., residents said, Hezbollah's fighters were ambushed by Druze villagers in their heartland, some of whom, until that moment, had stood on opposite sides of the 18-month-long crisis, divided by politics and leadership. For perhaps the first time in Hezbollah's history, it had deployed as an army of conquest rather than an insurgent band, fighting Israel, that could exploit its own terrain and the support of its people.
Two hours later, residents said, its fighters were trapped on the Israeli-built road. Furious mediation secured their release, and, by 4 a.m., they began withdrawing.
"We're going to die in our village. We're never going to leave it," said Nadia Assaf, a 22-year-old resident of Niha, surveying the scene of the battle from a Druze shrine for the prophet Job. "It learned the lesson that it'll be defeated on our land."
The words were the same as those uttered by countless Shiite villagers in the 2006 war with Israel, when it invaded Hezbollah's stronghold in southern Lebanon.
Few missed that irony: "Hezbollah may gain a lot in terms of power. It certainly has the upper hand," said Salem, the analyst. "But it has lost a lot in terms of image."
In the eyes of many Lebanese, the resistance is now an occupying power. How will Hizbollah -- which has in the past divided the world into the oppressors and the oppressed -- adjust to the ugly new reality where they are seen as the former?
66 comments:
This again comes down to the question of legitimacy: Is the governemnt viewed as a stooge for the US, or as a real legitime selfgoverning body? Is it viewed as a force of the people, or as a corrupt collegiate? If the Hezbollah narrative wins through, that the governement were basically in the pockets of Israel, I am not so sure that the Hezbollah will be villified by others than the previously mentioned corrupt folks and their mediaoutlets.
For a counterinsurgent, you're pretty impatient. This wasn't the end of days. Hezbollah used kid- gloves against rival militias, not the state or the army. They did what everyone in Lebanon knew they could do, but what Hezbollah itself does not want to do - take over.
They tarnished their image, maybe. To some people. But the oppressors of Lebanon? Be serious. Maybe if you arrived from Mars on the day of the event, with no understanding of the context, the players, the history... otherwise, be serious, O veteran of the global counterinsurgency.
Hezbollah - in the streets and mountains - has been fighting against militias that didnt raise a hand against Israel in 33 days (or years). You talk about Hezbollah being the oppressors as if you think that people in Lebanon (many whom were not Hezbollah, or Shiite, yet fought Israel's invasion as Lebanese patriots) don't know who fought the real oppressors? You don't think people know whose side these militias were on when it really mattered?
The Anbar awakening, Dahlan, and so it is with Siniora/Hariri/M14. Hezbollah wasn't acting on a whim or for vanity. Look at the record. Your compradors are losing all over the world.. and Lebanon, too.
As counter-guerrillas, you also must respect the role of the comms apparatus that Hezbollah sought to protect. So a light tarnishing for Hezbollah, maybe, but imagine the coup it would have been if Condi and Livni had acheived via Hariri/Gaegae/Jumblatt what the Golani Brigade or Halutz's environmental air control could not!
Again, the edicts of the cabinet, if allowed to pass would have led to more and to a bloodier, longer battle further down the road, and at the cost of some PR they had to act.
Oppressor? NYT propaganda aside, don't you have to be around, pointing your guns at people to be an oppressor? Doesn't handing over control of a neighborhood you take to the state point to a poor oppression policy?
todd is right. Kid gloves were used. If they had truly wanted to be oppressors, then the new reality would have been a lot more than a tarnished image. And to be frank most of those claiming Hizballah as oppressor today are those that claimed Hizballah was a Syrian/Iranian proxy two weeks ago.
Here's how the media cycle works: Pentagon leaks to its favored reporters, reporters publish in the New York Times and Washington Post, and then various indies repost the NYT and WP stories.
This is a typical PSYOPS "truth projection and reinforcement strategy". The stories have no mention of how the Israeli assault actually boosted support for Israel, and certainly no mention of the ridiculous strategy of using proxy armies in Lebanon to spark a civil war.
Seymour Hersh: The Redirection
March 5, 2007 ". . .To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. . ."
True enough, as events have shown. Attempting to disrupt the insurgency by artificially increasing Sunni-Shiite strife - whose idea was that? (black ops, letters with bullets, mercenary assassination teams - those are the stories coming back with vets ).
As well as the NYT and the WP, look at what Al-Quds Al-Arabi (Arab Jerusalem), an independent pan-Arab daily newspaper published in London since 1989, has to say:
"“The tensions are heading toward escalation, and therefore toward a confrontation, following the press conference which was held by prominent loyalist leader Mr. Walid Junblatt, who exposed the network of spy cameras set up by Hezbollah to watch the Beirut airport, the traffic on it and the movements of the loyalist team. The party did not deny that and said via its deputy Mr. Na’im Haddad that this communication network was connected to the resistance and its strategy.
“When the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, whose ambassador knew about the war decision against Iraq and its date before Colin Powell, advises its citizens not to travel to Lebanon and those who are currently in it to leave it immediately, when Undersecretary of State David Welch tells the Lebanese they should become used to not having a president in Baabda Palace and when Mr. Walid Junblatt goes from calm and cooling to escalation in a few days, the most naive among people will realize that war was imminent. "
Then, he gets down to the details:
"“However, the reality that is not seen by many is that the resistance led by Hezbollah is not the resistance of “strangers” and that the state it wishes to establish within the state is a Lebanese state and not Fatahland... Those who ousted the Palestinian resistance to serve American-Israeli interests under the pretext of Lebanon’s independence and sovereignty, cannot oust the Lebanese resistance and send its elements to Iran...
“The Arab region is rushing toward war due to a well-crafted American plan aiming to detonate it starting from Lebanon, in order to restore the lost and humiliated status of the Israeli army following the war that broke out the summer before last, the increase of the strength of the resistance and the collapse of the old war concepts that were based on the element of shock, i.e. the attack of the other side with intensive air bombing to force it to surrender and raise the white flag instantly... Israel is planning a war and preparing to wage it against Hezbollah in Lebanon and against Hamas, the Jihad and the other resistance factions in Palestine with America’s encouragement. "
"“If not, how could we interpret its sudden rejection of the Egyptian mediation aiming to secure calm in the Gaza Strip while it has been begging for it during the past months? Just like Iraq, Kuwait before it, and the entire Palestinian people before that, Lebanon will be the victim. The new US-led game of nations has no mercy and America is willing to shed innocent blood to secure its need to control the oil, its reserves and pipelines in the region. We hope that Lebanon will not be dragged into civil war and pray that the Lebanese sides, and especially Hezbollah, which enjoys military supremacy and is the most targeted by America and Israel, will act wisely by withdrawing the armed men from the streets, opening the roads and blocking the way before all the pretexts used by those who want to detonate the situation."
It appears that the Lebanese Army was the one most responsible for avoiding the detonation, actually.
Helena Cobban has an interesting entry up about the subject.
Look, I sympathize with your distrust of the MSM. But Bob Worth and Anthony Shadid are Arabic-speaking journalists based in the region. The latter is arguably the finest journalist in America. I didn't post those articles just because they were in the NYT and WaPo but for who wrote them.
And it doesn't matter if Hizbollah is an oppressor or not. What matters is that roughly half of the Lebanese populations now sees them as such. We Americans protest we are not an occupying power in Iraq, and by law, we are not anymore. But what do Iraqis think?
"What matters is that roughly half of the Lebanese populations now sees them as such. We Americans protest we are not an occupying power in Iraq, and by law, we are not anymore. But what do Iraqis think?"
Rather an exageration don't you think. What's your evidence for "roughly half" statement, a few man on the street interviews of Sunni's after divisive bloodshed. Has opinion really changed in Lebanon?
Shadid talked to some angry Sunni's and highlighted some Shia attrocities (probably not Hizbullah btw), but he could have also reported on the Druze torturing and killing 3 captured Shia or the Sunni massacre of disarmed Allawites in Tripoli.
And what's with the heroic Druze resistance in the Chouf? The story is very confused there. Why did Jumblatt tell his men to turn over their weapons to the his Druze rival if it was such a resounding victory?
Actually, I'm hearing the "Hizbullah as oppressor" theme a lot--and not all of them hardcore March 14 types (although all Sunnis, Christians, and Druze). Heck, I'm even hearing it from some very senior March 8/FPM folks, despite Aoun's formal position.
In the Shuf, the PSP did better than expected, but not so well as they claim. For Junblat it was a perfect mix: Druze honour is preserved, while the "we'll disarm" part allowed them to continue to play the aggrieved party.
And no, the PSP isn't really disarming (leaving aside household weapons, they weren't very heavily armed before. Look for that to change now.)
I think Hezbollah will come off with good press, as the MSM press is pre-disposed by either fear or bias against anything that can be construed as part of an American or Israeli conspiracy. So they have a bad couple of days then get rehabilitated. In any case, I don't think Hezbollah will be holding mea maxima culpa press conferences or going to grief counseling about it.
Evac now:
The Saudi ambassador could have gotten that information any number of ways, presumably they have their own sources in Lebanon.
Seymour Hersh sees every act of violence in the world as part of a US plot, and he's against it. If we had that kind of juice, we'd own the world by now.
AM,
Roughly half is an over-estimation. Furthermore, 90% of those that are calling them oppressors today were calling them Syrian proxies yesterday. So Hizballah may have lost the sympathy of maybe 10% but more likely 5% of swing voters.
In truth, Hizballah's response will be we had to do what we had to do and sometimes what you have to do makes you unpopular.
It hasn't changed their mission or goals and it was an action they felt they had to take. And if the Doha talks come to some good, a President is elected and the economy gets back into swing they will claw some of those swing voters back by next year.
I only have a problem with the NYT article because the leading paragraphs and the second page simply play to stereotypes and while they are spent documenting the attack on two men by "Hizballah sympathizers" there is no balance to the rest. Sunnis "urged" the Shia man to close his shop? No they came in smashing his shop screaming how they were going to kill him and his family who lived above the shop. And the torture and mutilation of 15 people by the Sunni militias is glossed over. No balance, no objectivity.
Just cuz a journo can speak Arabic and/or is good at his job doesn't mean he will write objectively. Just look at Fisk and when the story involves Jumblatt
Look, I don't think anyone knows how this has changed perceptions among Lebanese yet, but I do find it interesting how nicely the various claims just happen to coincide with whom they are inclined to support. There is also a difference between short-term and long-term opinion. The truth likely somewhere in the middle and much depends on what happens over the coming weeks and months. Over the long term, if Hezbollah plays it's cards right, Mo's figures may become accurate.
Resistance? Oppressor? Resistance? Oppressor? To steal from Khaddam about the Americans in Lebanon, you are being a bit breathless.
The 2009 elections are coming and with or without a new (or old) electoral law, politics in the LB will go back to being a contest over which feudal family has the best village idiot.
Let the musical chairs begin! Christians, you go first ...
"todd is right. Kid gloves were used."
I predict that when Sunni Arabs imported from AQIZ string a daisy chain IED for a Hizbollah patrol a bit too far out of its zone, some in here might not be complaining about "kid gloves."
Because of Hizbollah's action, there will be a reaction. As my Sunni Arab friends in Lebanon say, "We regret we have become so weak, and we will find rough friends."
Or translated words to that effect.
Inevitably, it's not about the "cabinet." The "cabinet" couldn't enforce any decree against Hizbollah.
Who can? Similar forces to those that marched the "nation" of Lebanon into civil war.
While I'm sympathetic with Shi'i Arab Lebanese (who think of themselves in that order). They have a bad place in a bad political system. They could use a census update to reflect their true numbers in a democracy.
But I also sympathize because now they're occupiers, and there are Sunni Arabs in the region who know something about opposing an occupation. And Hizbollah doesn't know what's coming.
SNLII,
I fear you are allowing your fantasiesw to get the better of you. Daisy chain IEDs for a Hizballah patrol in Lebanon?
Take a look at a map. Lebanon is not the vast wasteland that Iraq is. And Hizballah do not 'patrol' anything.
The Sunnis are going to import Salafists "who know something about opposing an occupation" who are going to attack Hizballah (or more likely Shia civilians if their mod op is anything to go by)?
Firstly, in comparison to Hizballah, the salafists are rank amateurs at fighting occupation.
Secondly they are a rag tag bunch who couldn't even beat the weakest army in the ME, the Lebanese one, let alone one of the strongest.
Thirdly, what a PR coup it would be. Salafists who M14 constantly whine are imported by Syria attacking Hizballah who M14 constantly whine are supported by Syria. What will they claim then, that Syria will be attacking itself? How machivellian. Will they actually want the glorious reputaion of having brough AQ to Lebanon?
Fourthly, the Salafists, after the battles were done, declared how they will come to the aid of the Sunnis. This is akin to the guy that shouts "hold me back" while pretending he wants a fight.
And finally, Hizballah doesn't know whats coming? The people who infiltrated the Israeli communication network, who supposedly have monitors all over the airport and have support from the Syrians, don't know whats coming. Oh I think you will be very surprised at what they do know and how effectively they will take care of it.
You will see, Mo.
I would feel sorry for Hizbollah, but it's Hizbollah. So I feel nothing.
snli: Interesting. So, if Hezbollah are now going to have to fight various AQI elements, doesnt that make them ... sortta... US allies in the struggle against world wide terrorism?
The dominant US strategy in the ME should be containing Iranian influence, Fnord. This is not only good for the US and our allies in the ME, but eventually also for most Iranians.
This is why I've been a bit bemused by our working relationship with a bunch of Badr and Dawa flunkies in Baghdad. Bush's radical notion of creating a democratic bulwark against Iran, although noble, was never the best means to contain Iran after toppling its two biggest external enemies (Baathist Iraq and Taliban Afghanistan).
Currently, we've been discussing with Iran our abandonment of MEK, which Iran now considers its gravest pressing threat, which goes to show you just how safe Iran now is thanks to the USA.
Nasrallah, therefore, has more in common with ISCI/Badr/Dawa than he does with, say, Moqtada al-Sadr, the "Awakening" Sunni Arabs or the Kurds. So KSA funding some nutty salafists of some anti-occupation skill and zeal to target Hizbollah and protect Lebanese Sunni Arabs isn't exactly opposed to our interests, is it?
One might suggest that Hizbollah be a tad careful about the genies they unleash, because if anything we can say about the Afghanistan diaspora is that the jihadis tended to wash up in all sorts of odd shores.
One might imagine the export of OIF (them) veterans to, say, Baluchistan, just as we're seeing some cadres apparently once in the Pershmerga currently in Iran causing trouble amidst their Kurds.
Iran is only half Persian. There are all sorts of ways one could cause trouble, should one be inclined to do so. One might say that our KSA and Kuwaiti and Kurdish friends have been moving in one direction on this issue, and we've been working on another.
Hizbollah's occupation of Lebanon might have changed that.
Regardless, the point isn't to combat Iran directly. The second we invade Iran, we've lost. The moment we sink one of their pissant boats or blow up one of their pissant jets, we've lost.
Our goal is to contain, then squeeze, in as calibrated way as possible. And to keep squeezing until the nation of Iran quits being a cause and becomes a state.
That should be our dominant strategy in the ME, regardless of our president. Contain, not rollback. Contain.
Part of that strategy will involve negotiating with Iran, but another part will be defending our allies on the peripheries of Iran's sphere of influence.
Everything we do must be focused on carefully protecting our weakest allies, supporting our strongest (such as Turkey and Israel) and challenging ideologically and commercially and, very rarely, militarily Iran's proxies.
If that means a few Sunni Arabs will pressure plates blowing up Nasrallah's caravan to South Beirut on Cult of Personality Day 2009, so be it.
Perhaps Israel can learn this lesson, too, before Olmert's idiocy causes any more problems.
Contain. Not rollback.
Contain.
snli: Concerning containing Iran, that policy is withering away, innit? I posted here earlier about the gradual breaking up of the embargo on Iran, with the Pakistan and/or China pipeline, with the Swiss initiative and the "hanging" contracts with several other EU energyfirms. All this indicates to me that such a policy must require decisive military action inside 1-2 years, unless Iran be drawn into the far-eastern economic sphere and so become almost untouchable? How is this policy sustainable given todays energy enviroment, etc?
As you say yourself, the current US allies are closer to being Iranian cronies than most in the ME. How does this mesh with your stated strategical aims? I dont mean to be sarcastic, even, I just dont understand current US policy vis a vis reality.
Oh, and a PS: Fom jihadica.com, heres what Osama bin Laden himself has to say about Nasrallah:
"..To those who object to Bin Laden’s thesis by asserting that Hezbollah is fighting the good fight, Bin Laden hints that Hezbollah’s leader, Nasrallah, is beholden to the Iranians; otherwise, why didn’t Hezbollah liberate Palestine in its war with Israel two years ago? It was merely a war of self-defense. The fact that Nasrallah allows Crusader forces (UN peacekeepers) to protect the Jews indicates that he is not serious..."
Maybe not on this subject...but at least kind of.
Today I received a book on the 2006 Israel - Hizbollah War in the mail ( http://www.amazon.com/34-Days-Israel-Hezbollah-Lebanon/dp/0230604005/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211222898&sr=8-1 ). I will start reading it later today and it seems quite OK, but - - - it totally lacks maps.
Do any of you out there know of any book on the 2006 War that have some maps of what actually happened and where???
Regards from Sweden!
Fnord, Hizbollah always will be a non-starter for al Qaeda because of its Shiism, despite some kind words thrown Nasrallah's way during the 2006 war.
More interesting has been al Qaeda's approach to Hamas and, in a larger sense, its progenitor, Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood.
It gets silly listening to Abbas and various US neo-cons say that Hamas is rife with al Qaeda. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Sure, OBL called for the end of the "blockade" of Gaza/Hamasistan, but that's not representative.
Al Qaeda always has looked upon Hamas as illegitimate because it was willing to participate in elections and then form a government sharing power with Fatah/PLO. The point of bin Laden's mission is not to collaborate with nation states, but to usurp them.
Ayman al-Zawahiri has been more forceful about this than OBL, calling the mere decision to participate in elections an "act of submission" to Zionism and the west.
Ironically, had Hamas become what it said it would become in 2006 -- a liberal, democratic alternative to Fatah that sought closer relations with the west and a gradualist approach to good governance and reconciliation -- it would have remained the evil enemy of bin Laden.
Alas, whereas it is still a lackey for Iran, Hamas also has received good favor recently from OBL by killing Jews, killiing Fatah loyalists and tearing down Egyptian walls that are being rebuilt.
In other words, by acting more like Egyptian Jihad or Al-Jamaa al-Islamiyya (the roots of al Qaeda) and less like the Muslim Brotherhood, from which sprang Hamas (Palestinian branch).
Ironic, eh?
Tjenare. Sjekk ut http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/mideast_war_2006.html
for den besta samlingen av kart.
Fred.
Thanks for the hyperlink!
Anyone know of any books?
snli: Remember, Norway is the only NATO country still in contact with Hamas, as far as I remember. We tend to see it a bit more two-ways, mainly that they were pushed to the wall and when the knife is at the throat, you dont look at the returnadress of any gifts. Hamas was trying to play rational for a long time, but just were not godamned allowed. I have never been to Gaza, but have contacts who worked for Doctors without Borders down there, and have seen the pictures. F&%cking hell, thats grim. So that they have been driven into the arms of whoever fights their (excuse emotional language) oppressors I can well understand.
Wich does not mean that Hamas are people I support, I hope this is a given in intelligent conversation. But if they had been allowed to exist, with some intelligent preconditions, back in the bloodrage days of US diplomacy (2001-2004) many many things could have been different. You read the story of the first intifada, where crosspolitical workers council challenged Arafat? And got squashed by western bribes to the corrupt f&cks? Argh.
Like Hizbollah, when should we give terrorist states a "chance," Fnord?
Currently, they're on the payroll of Iran and receive aid from Syria. Not exactly the "democracies" one would see in Scandanavia, eh?
They foster terrorist enterprises against a democratically-elected member of the United Nations, Israel, which recently surrendered Gaza to Hamas and pulled out all settlers.
I thought that was the old "goal" of Hamas, right? Or should we overlook the other goals of Hizbollah and Hamas, which is to drive Israel into the sea?
It becomes difficult to negotiate with a cause, not a state. Hizbollah, Hamas and Iran largely exist as "causes," not nations.
Syria is a nation, but the ruling junta (an Alawite minority controlling a Baathist police state, largely disliked by its own people) can remain in power only by keeping the state in a martial "emergency" due to the existence of Israel.
By "negotiating" with the west or Israel, the junta loses any right to claim an "emergency" and the powers that derive from it. Return Golan to Assad tomorrow and he would still have to scream, "Emergency! Emergency!" or face overthrow.
Same with Hizbollah. You could give Hizbollah every prisoner it covets in Israeli jails, the deed to Shebaa Farms and a new pony and Nasrallah would still seek to kidnap and kill Jews around the world.
Do I think some of what Hizbollah says is legitimate, that there are grievances -- both against Israel and the two Lebanese factions controlling the "government" in Beirut -- that they have every right to express?
Definitely.
But that doesn't mean that if we nodded to their legitimate grievances, offered them negotiated settlements over them and even helped to create a more representative Lebanese government that they would eschew Iranian and Syrian influence or aid, stop plotting to kill Jews or accomodate themselves to democracy because it's not in their interests to do so.
Ditto, Hamas.
How do we make them change their minds? I don't know. By simply "talking," we won't get anywhere.
You tell me.
snli: Theres a consensus here that we shall not discuss the nation-who-shall-not-be-named, so Ill not rise to that occasion. But to your point about Iran/Hez/Hamas as causes: I think you are making to broad a statement about these actors, forgetting the strategical depth each actor has. Iran is obviously a coming medium superpower onscale with Paki, Saudi and Indonesia. They have a strategic depth to their actions and a set of resources that are huge. Hezbollah and Hamas are semiautonome movements, Hamas are even Sunni, but have in various degrees been driven to the wall by the Israeli military.
SO at the point of the problem is this: You have a lot of heavy lads whose tribal structures are based on the resistance movement, and who have a legitimate grievance against a close allied US state. If we compare civ. deathtolls, I think we both can concede the palestinians that right? Now, the palestinian problem can actually be solved, by a international presence. Russian troops would be welcome by palestinians, and they could talk to the most radical of the Israeli folks as well, because they all come from Russia. And the US, of course. This is not an anti-semite statement in any way, i hope.
Its interesting, btw, to see how the US treats the maoists in Nepal, wich is officially a terroriststate at t he moment, due to the victory of the maoists in the elections. The US ambassador shook the hand of the maoist leader two days ago, my carbon paper tells me (Klassekampen).
Pulled out all settlers?
Oh, I forgot, the answer to your question: We drown them in cash! The Haririri solution, swimmingpools for everyone. A fiveyear construction period with Russian/Chinese forces en masse patroling *everywhere* on the perimeter. It is way cheaper than doing it yourselves. Money from the west, manpower form the east, consensus on that something needs to be done. UN doctrine with sharp elements.
I cant see any other rational way forward, all the parameters stack up wrong. US unilateralism is not sustainable in a 20 year perspective, according to my analysis. I may be wrong ;-)
Again, I am flabbeghasted by SNLII (I flabberghast easily). After such keen analysis of the Iraqi scene and the vagaries of the Shia politics there, we have a highly superficial analysis of the region. You cannot negotiate with a "cause"? Spare me the nonsense. What exactly we were doing with the PLO during its bad old days in Lebanon? You know well that is the complexity of the US position (and its vulnerabilities) in the region that allows these 'enemies' of the US to use their fantastical rhetoric, at little to no cost. Indeed, you reveal too much and your words should hearten any supporter of Iran, Hizbullah, Syria or any combination of the three. US policy in Lebanon will always be poorly calibrated at best, counter-productive at worst because of this need to see anything and everything as part of a zero-sum regional power play. This is not an 'Americans are stupid' argument, but rather an appreciation that policies reflect both intentions and capabilities. Oh, how the Syrian and Iranian regimes must chuckle to hear this 'you cannot negotiate.' It is a gift you are giving them, and signal that they should just wait around until the Americans have worn themselves out with their own ideological fantasies. In this sense, the 'baddies' are following your advice to a tee. Iraq, anyone?
Really, I cannot believe this is the same SNLII. I cannot.
anon 9:20: Choose a nick, will ya? ;-)
We began our (largely fruitless) negotiations with PLO because some (not me) were convinced that Fatah wanted to become a state, not a cause.
Currently, I believe the West Bank government under Abbas would verily like to be a "state," but not one that includes Hamas. Can't say I blame him, but Abbas is an imperfect vessel on which to load the cargo of state because he doesn't have all that much legitimacy, even in Ramallah.
So, as I like to say, let's have a four state solution!
Hamasistan gets its own state in Gaza, which both the Israelis and the Egyptians will sensibly ring with the tallest wall they can find.
The West Bank gets its own state, too, and Israel clears out all of its settlements beyond a negotiated border. Let's call is Abbasistan.
Hizbollah already is a state-within-a-state and is prone to invading and occupying its weaker neighbor to the north when not kidnapping Israeli soldiers to the south and then watching much of its infrastructure get pounded to dust. Well, we'll call the new nation state Nasrallastan and we'll move the ineffective international peacekeepers from the south to the new boundary between Lebanon and Nasrallastan, so they can ineffectively guard that for awhile.
Those who have benefitted so much from a faux census in Lebanon get to keep up the charade in their new and improved (more Druze!) "Lebanon."
Nasrallah can continue his creepy Cult of Personality indebtedness to Tehran and Damascus on his own watch, and Lebanon and Israel will build the largest walls they can along the borders.
From now on, Hamas can't drag the rest of the Palestinians into war and Hizbollah can't submit all of Lebanon to Nasrallah's foreign policy mistakes.
Everyone wins!
Why is this unacceptable to Hamas and Hizbollah and Iran and Syria? Because "causes" don't really want to be states. If you want to punish them, make them that which they loath to be.
Without strong arming the rest of Lebanon, what power does Hizbollah have? On its own, it's a crappy like Shiite Gaza. What's Hamasistan without holding the rest of the Palestinians hostage to fervid dreams of murdering Jews? A crappy little slum even Egypt doesn't want to claim.
Iran can have both causes, but I think Tehran would drop them as clients fairly quickly once they no longer could project Iranian influence beyond their own borders.
slni: "Hizbollah already is a state-within-a-state and is prone to invading and occupying its weaker neighbor to the north when not kidnapping Israeli soldiers to the south and then watching much of its infrastructure get pounded to dust."
Now that is quite simply not a rational reading of the latest events. Hezbollah holds certain territories in the Lebanese sphere of reality, and they are capable of defending them, with a forward push if necessary. Did they do massacres? No, they did not. If you see a show of strength as a fullscale occupation, then you have learned less from the morroccans than I thought.. Algerie was a bad place for many years, I know some people from there.
That's quite a dream you're having, soldier. It rates right there with the previous dream of invading Iraq and being received with sweets and kisses.
Ever been to Iran? Know any non exile Iranians? Know any non Persian, non exile Iranians? Respectfully, before you make all these grand pronouncements on how easy it is to turn Iran on itself, it might help to know the country a little better.
Al-Qaida successfully engaging Hezbollah is another grandiose dream. Like Mo says, how and where? By terrorist strikes? Hezbollah withstood years of occupation and two wars from Israel, it can withstand a few terrorist strikes, should they come. There is little or no difference between a bomb dropped by an Israeli war plane or a terrorist bomb. So while it would be terrible, it wouldn't be outside the Hezbollah experience.
Back to Iran. What''s the easiest way to exact change in Iran? Simple. Adopt Iran. Normalize relations. Invest in the country. Make things so easy for the people of iran, that their economy will take off like a rocket ship. Make it so that they themselves will liberalize from affluence.
Of course, the Israel lobby won't have it, an economic rival to Israel in the region. And there you have it.
All these comments about Hezbollah being the occupier fall down on a simple premise - none of them are identifying any territory which Hezbollah is occupying.
Soldier -please, tell me what are they are occupying?
They have handed everything back to the Lebanese Army! THAT IS NOT OCCUPATION.
Also, would the relatively secular Lebanese Sunni (at least in my experience, open to correction her) be stupid enough to invite in a bunch of Salafists which they know would cause them trouble (eg executing people who drink / smoke cigarettes etc - how would that wash in Lebanon?)
Finally, as Mo says, AQI tend to "resist the Crusaders" by blowing up markets full of Shia civilians. Those tactics would strengthen Hizbollah in my mind if applied to Lebanon
soldier, you have repeated some of the most classic myths perpetrated by Israel and supporters of Israel which means you take everything you are told on Israel at face value or you are on a propaganda exercise.
Surrendered Gaza? Drive Israel into the sea? Killing Jews?
All the classics. You aren't a former Israeli soldier in Iraq by any chance?
If it helps you any, theres a list of classic Zionist myths on my blog.
"Of course, the Israel lobby won't have it, an economic rival to Israel in the region. And there you have it."
Yes, thus far Israel has been intollerant and successful in halting the gentrification over the past 60 years of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Turkey and any number of other ME nations with higher per capita GDP (PPP) than Iran.
During the Clinton administration, and facing a different regime in Tehran, we attempted to go this route. Want to guess how the "cause" decided to handle it?
Also, I note that many of those making comments in here fancy themselves experts on counter-insurgency, whereby they compare the effects of an IED to that of a air-to-surface missile.
Beyond the obvious fact of the differences, the larger error intrudes: Hizbollah, as the theme of this thread portends, is no longer the "resistance" taking the beating, but rather the occupier.
This is a very different sort of dynamic.
Since I know a great many refugees from the democratic wonderland of Iran (including some in uniform), I'm not sure they share your estimation of how ethnic and religious and linguistic minorities within Iran view their overlords.
Currently, there have been reports of violence against Iranian military units (occupiers) in Kurdish enclaves and, increasingly, in Baluchistan.
Tehran has blamed these attacks against it on foreign conspirators. I only wish we had more to do with it! Why can't Congress speed some moolah to Jund Allah?
If you haven't encountered any of this anti-Iranians from "Iranians," I would suggest you begin reading it. http://www.roozonline.com/ is a good start. So is www.balochwarna.org and http://www.balochinews.blogspot.com
Thus far, of course, it needn't come to all that. Why? Because sanctions have begun. Let's see what sanctions do.
Royal Dutch Shell just pulled out of South Pars. The latest round of deals Iran cut with Asian firms won't start production for five years or more.
Let's continue the diplomatic route, but make sure that we increasingly isolate Iran. Make those suffering from the regime take notice.
Give it a reason to talk.
Don't fire a shot. Just squeeze. Contain, and squeeze.
"If it helps you any, theres a list of classic Zionist myths on my blog."
Mo, I made the mistake of actually going there. If you don't believe that Ahmadinijad is a true-blue holocaust denier (I seem to recall a certain forum ...), I don't know what to tell you.
This was so incredible, one has to wonder why so many Jews in the ME fled to Israel as quickly as they could:
"Furthermore, all Jewish people whether immigrants or those that had come under Islamic rule by conquest were treated the same. How do complainants of this square this with Israels current treatment of palestinians?"
Myths, indeed. Do you really believe this?
Uggggh.
By the way, if you're going to flack for Hizbollah and spin its murder spree against Jews, you might need to say something about Argentina or the plots thwarted by Singapore.
Sure. Myths.
Come on, Mo!
"Also, would the relatively secular Lebanese Sunni (at least in my experience, open to correction her) be stupid enough to invite in a bunch of Salafists which they know would cause them trouble (eg executing people who drink / smoke cigarettes etc - how would that wash in Lebanon?)"
They say they're serious. Personally, I think they're crazy, but no one ever complained that the Lebanese were too sane.
Currently, my Sunni Arab friends in Lebanon believe that they've been disrespected. They rue that they've grown so weak since the civil war. They know those who went to Iraq to fight a different occupation said to be illegitimate and involving a Shiite usurper.
Stressful times don't make for prudent decisions, especially if Saudi money and "assistance" are available.
But this thread isn't about my crazy ideas, it's about what sort of crazy ideas get started when one no longer is the "resistance" (resisting to what?) and becomes, at least in the minds of the dissed, the "occupation."
If you've had Amal thugs storm into your shop, loot it and then turn the street over to the army, still walking the pavement the next day carrying AKs and laughing it up, you might have a beef, too. You might be so angry that you find friends who stand up to bullies.
Friends who aren't Shiite. Friends who don't like them. Friends who have friends who want to do the same thing to the Syrians.
soldier, there you go again. You have been fed a myth so often and so well you repeat it with no evidence.
Ahmadinijad a holocaust denier? Maybe he is but neither you nor I have any evidence one way or the other. My list does not claim either way. I simply correct an attempt to misinterpret his words to make him seem so. And the certain forum you remember was based on examining the way Israel uses the holocaust to its end. Granted there were some die-hard deniers at the conference but there were also a good amount of Rabbis and learned Jewish folk there too.
What is it exactly you are asking that I believe?
Ah the good old Argentina bombs. The investigation that was labelled one of the most corrupt, incompetent pieces of work which every witness said occurred on the 4th floor but is now a car bomb? The attack which had Mossad doing all the forensic work? The attack which Menem, then President, said was not likely to be the work of Iran or Hizballah as the Mossad and the CIA had told him so? It was pinned on Mughniyeh but then again before Bin Laden what wasn't?
And Singapore? You are kidding right?
Hizballahs murder spree against Jews?
What is it that makes your outrage over the killing of inncocent civilians so selective? If we are to compare civilians killed between Israel and every organisation and army opposed to it, who would get the killing spree award exactly?
But let me ask you, since you are often repeating this.
You keep saying Hizballah is now occupying Lebanon. Exactly how do you define occupation?
Sheesh, I'm starting to wish that AM would return to his previous, informal "let's not talk about the Arab-Israeli conflict" rule again....
rb, Lebanon has that effect on people
mo: You cant deny that Ahmadinejad has embraced the ugliest parts of anti-semitism. Shit, he held a neo-nazi conference in Tehran, man. He really really put his stupid foot into the blender with that one, because it means he suddenly turns up on my enemylist as well. The fascist/shia connection is old and true. Ahmadinejad keeps it up and running. (If you want to go there, check out the olympic games-commitee. Samaranch executed civil prisoners with headshots during the bad years under Franco...)
snli: Youre still not employing your empathic skills to the situation. WHat would you do if you were a hezbollah militiaman? Where is their out?
AM:
Have you ever considered the Patrick Lang (turcopolier.typepad.com) curmudeonly moderator model? I realize it creates more work for you, and that you already have a day job (or more), and that you're creating a public good for no compensation. That said, I think some moderated comments might produce a higher-quality product.
Anon
PS - SNLII, please keep up the good commenting.
fnord,
He held a stupid conference with a stupid agenda in trying to prove a point stupidly.
Some of the people who attended the conference have some of the most odious theories on the planet.
But calling it neo-nazi and anti-semitic is wrong. Many Jewish and Rabbinical groups attended it. What would they be doing at a neo-nazi conference for heavens sake?
Like I said, I have no problem with people accusing Ahmadinijad of anti-semitism, I just ask for some proof that hasn't been through the propaganda mill.
Mo:
I disagree with your assessment of the Iranian holocaust conference--however much they framed it as a "historical investigation" it was heavily weighted in favour of, and touted by, Holocaust deniers. There were not "many" Jewish and rabbinical groups in attendance--only a few marginal anti-Zionist groups. Indeed, when I was last in Tehran it was widely (if privately) seen as anti-Semitic by Iranian officials, scholars, and students.
rb,
My original point is intention. Do the Iranians regard the conference as anti-semitic in intention or as a result of the attendees?
I'm not convinced it was organised or intended as anti-Jewish rather than Ahmadinijads flamboyant but futile way of countering the claims of free speech and the Danish cartoons and the use of the Holocaust in Zionist propaganda.
However, if you tell me that in Iran it is believed otherwise, I will concede the point.
Anon,
Don't be such a priss. The commenters here are commenters over lang's blog as well. If we don't meet your standards of eloquence or intelligence, then direct us to your blog so that we sit at the feet of the truly learned for some edu-ma-cation.
Simple fact is that SNLII is very sharp on matters Iraq, but wanders into the darkness when it comes to Lebanon (yes, I know, i know, his sunni 'friends' there -- what a motley crew they must be). And his repeated reference to 'murdering jews', as well as some very loaded language set the commenters off. The push-back was deserved, even if it itself was not well-lit.
cheers.
Academics: Go back to your sewers. In the real world, competent people are needed. Your vacuous talking points will get everyone killed.
They (Hezbollah) have always been an occupying power. They are Iranian forces deployed in Lebanese territory. Hezbollah is not an insurgency, and you shouldn't be thinking of this as insurgency / counterinsurgency. They are an arm of Iranian regional ambitions. They are trained and funded by Iran, and fight for Iranian ambitions.
"Hezbollah withstood years of occupation and two wars from Israel, it can withstand a few terrorist strikes, should they come. There is little or no difference between a bomb dropped by an Israeli war plane or a terrorist bomb. So while it would be terrible, it wouldn't be outside the Hezbollah experience."
All due respect, but fighting Israel is fighting a military that maintains a pretty decent moral code. Think Jenin. Why did they send soldiers in there, when they could have EASILY bombed from the air and achieved their objectives much quicker and easier? To limit civilian casualties. Whey did they even bother with a ground invasion of Lebanon in 2006? Why not just blow the whole of southern Lebanon into a crater? Because it would be inhumane. This is how the Israelis fight, and I love them for it.
AQ, not so much. They saw the heads off of living captives on videotape. They will kill your women and rape your buffalo, and post the video on the internet. They will do ANYTHING if they think it will either help their cause or get them into paradise.
IOW, yes, AQ IS somewhat outside the experience of your heroic defenders of innocent Lebanese.
On another point...can somebody, ANYBODY, please point me to a piece of evidence that could convince me that Bin Laden is not pushing up posies at this point, and that he has not been doing so for years? For a guy who seemed to love the spotlight so much, he sure puts out a lot of AUDIO messages, and video messages that could have been produced a LONG time ago. And why so many messages through his number 2? I suspect there's a dirt nap in progress.
"Ahmadinijad a holocaust denier? Maybe he is but neither you nor I have any evidence one way or the other. My list does not claim either way. I simply correct an attempt to misinterpret his words to make him seem so."
I can't be arsed to look up the direct quote, but dinnerjacket did say something to the effect of "we're not denying that the Holocaust happened, but if it did, then it should be a subject of more inquiry". Basically telling us that if we're so sure it happened, then we shouldn't be afraid of people studying it.
Well, nobody's afraid of honest academic studying of it. HOWEVER...I have personally spoken to more than one survivor of the Nazi death camps. I have a family member who was among those who liberated several camps, and it was so horrible that he only ever was able to talk to close family about it. I wish he had never told ME some of the things he told me. I have nightmares about it, and he told me back in the 80s.
They still have people alive in Iran that were there in Germany at the end. That prick knows full well that the holocaust happened, and that it happened on something approximating the scale claimed by traditional historical accounts. In that way, no, he's not a "denier".
He's more clever than that. He's simply making snide insinuations that "maybe" it wasn't as bad as reported, and shouldn't we look into that? The bastard is just trying to undercut one of the bigger reasons for the existence of Israel. If he can succeed at that, then he'll be able to have his own turn at trying to end the Jewish question once and for all. He'd love nothing better, is my guess.
My original point is intention. Do the Iranians regard the conference as anti-semitic in intention or as a result of the attendees?
One has to be very careful extrapolating the views of "Iranians" from north Tehran intellectuals and students, or from Khatemi and Rafsanjani era officials--Iran is as class-divided society as any I've ever seen. However, there were a great many who saw it either as anti-Semitic, or so-stupid-as-to-amount-to-the-same-thing (and I was rather strongly applauded at one talk when I made that same point).
Long ago in the distant past, before I started doing ME stuff, I was an activist in the UK anti-neonazi movement (ANL and RAR, for any with long memories). The National Front and BNP folks too hid behind the polite veneer of "we merely want ask questions about the veracity of historical claims," until you got them in a quiet back room where the true anti-Semitic vitriol could spew.
anon,
I would suggest that your anger at what he said was more his intention. His speeches show that if anything, he loves winding his opponets up.
rb,
i would definitely agree with those who say "so stupid it may as well have been". We will have to wait for his quiet backroom moment.
Unlike the anon who believes I "stray" when it comes to Lebanon, the reality is that I've actually been to Lebanon. No one who lives there would deny any number of realities now encased as "myths."
Hizbollah hates Jews. This is evident to anyone who has had the grave misfortune of watching Hizbollah's television broadcasts or reading its periodicals. If I didn't know better, I would've assumed that "al Manar" meant "The Jew Haters."
One of its better known programs was the Syrian "al Shatat," which perpetuates the blood libel myth (which Iran perhaps is diligently trying to "study"). You could've caught the reruns last year.
Hizbollah has been implicated in the murder of innocent Jewish civilians in Argentina. It attempted to carry out the same sorts of operations in Singapore.
Mo wants us to forget that anyone can visit the plaque erected by Hizbollah in southern Lebanon in memory to bomber Ibrahim Hussein Berro, the man behind the 1994 AMIA massacre.
His wife continues to receive a pension paid by Hizbollah, who claims he was killed fighting Israel in Lebanon.
Ha. Bungled Argentinian investigation? Probably. But I doubt Hizbollah erects plaques in honor of Argentianian fighters mysteriously dying on their soil. I imagine they remember him for what he did in their pay.
Hizbollah denies a lot of things. But Hizbollah can't deny that it's now seen by Sunni Arabs in Lebanon as an "occupier," by Israelis as a terrorist state-within-a-state, by secularists as a threat to multiparty democracy and by Iran as a convenient proxy.
As we do with Iran, we should keep squeezing Hizbollah. No need to "talk" to them. We understand their grievances, some of which are just.
But we don't like their bosses, methods or ideology and should do everything in our power to economically strangle them, isolate them, shame them.
Our friends in KSA and Kuwait will handle the other details.
Lest this discussion become too serious and depressing, I'm pleased to offer, from my temporary perch on St. Jame's Square, a Walid Phares moment:
http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=498
I am a particular fan of his measured and non-sectarian analyses of Lebanese politics, and this is a particular gem:
hordes of Lebanon’s Khomeinist Janjaweeds-- oh, I wish I had thought of that one first. Can you mount a Grad on a camel?
Reminding us of the tales of Greek Antiquity, this Xerxes -Khomeinist- Army burst into the capital and A vast Hezbollah Iranian-backed Army unleashing its power against few Lebanese Spartans--as you'll see, the entire piece has a lovely "The 300" theme running to it, with the Druze playing the role of the Spartans. I'm not sure whether Dr. Phares was of the same view back in the day when his LF and the PSP were going head-to-head in the Chouf. Certainly, Walid Bey does seem a dead ringer for King Leonidas.
FROM CAROL HERMAN
One small lesson worth learning; Lebanon is the marijuana capital of the world. It's their economy, folks. And, it all grows in the Ba'kakta Valley.
So, Assad's in charge? So what? It's one thug, or another. While Islam forbids alcohol, so you'd see how the arabs (and others) reach for the hashish pipes, instead.
Nasrallah didn't win a thing! When faced by the Lebanese Army soldiers, the two groups fired into the air. And, Nasrallah's thugs surrounded Harriri's house, and Jumblatt's house, in Beirut. Here? The opposition wasn't killed. Just left terrified. So, Jumblatt sent out an order to the Druze leadership up in the hills, NOT to fight back! And, none of the Druze in the villages bothered to listen. And? Nasrallah had to withdraw.
Of course, the major media is still in full propaganda mode. And, dying from the excesses of their stinking coverage. On the other hand? You've got us amateurs. Typing away at home. Conserving enery, by not having to travel to any office.
It's a win-win, I'm tellin' ya.
soldier,
Plaque? Do tell, i've never seen a plaque to anyone in Lebanon. Where did you see it?
Ibrahim Berro?
Ok don't take my word for it, how about your own diplomats?
Then Ambassador James Cheek, deputy chief of mission Ronald Goddard and chief of political section William Brencick all agreed in interviews that US and Argentine efforts had turned up no evidence that Iran or Hezbollah had been involved in the bombing.
In the words of the then Ambassador.
"To my knowledge there was never any real evidence of Iranian responsibility. They never came up with anything."
Soldier, if there is any hate going on, it has become quite apparent that you do not lack any of it. I had thought from your posts on Iraq that you were a more rational man but obviously with Hizballah your dogma and beliefs take over. Neither I nor anyone is going to change your mind nor your entrenched beliefs on a blog.
You don't like our bosses, methods or ideology? No, you dont like what you percieve them to be and you are either peddling those perceptions or are a victim of them. But at the end of the day it really doesn't matter.
Relying on your friends in Kuwait and KSA? Must be getting desperate.
"You" have tried the UN, the IDF, the political opponents, the media and until there is a more rational administration in the US, Im sure, like you say, "you" will keep trying to strangle and isolate (shame, ha, that is the one thing you ain't ever going to achieve).
Good luck with that.
While economically significant, Lebanese marijuana production at its heyday was only about 1/8th that of British Columbia... (not exactly the "marijuana capital of the world").
What we haven't tried is a terror/assassination program as carried out by Arab Sunni fighters skilled in such matters, Mo.
Whether or not I think it's prudent to pursue this course, it's a course the Sunnis in Lebanon likely are taking, a path lined with petrodollars from well meaning, if equally foolish, dynastic states outside of the Levant.
Now that Hizbollah no longer is the "resistance," it should be interesting to see how they and their followers take the images of dead Hizbollah and Amal occupiers, the spectacular fire bombings, the leaders culled from the herd.
I always thought Nasrallah would die at the hands of the IAF. Now I think he'll probably eat an IED courteously left by Sunni Arabs who don't much like watching their shops looted by Amal thugs.
This might take years. But I fear it is coming.
Enjoy it. Hizbollah earned it.
As if on cue, yesterday's OBL tape called out Nasrallah as a toadie to the "Crusaders and Zionists" because he isn't doing anything to liberate Palestine from "the Jews." Indeed, he "welcomed" the "Crusader" UN forces.
He called on the umma to fight Hizbollah because it was a "buffer" between the mujahideen and Israel.
Apparently, it's playing on al Ikhlas, but I only read the translated piece.
I'll get to it later today.
SNLII,
Anon, here again, for the last time. And as I have said earlier, I really much appreciate your comments on Iraq. Indeed, I will occasionally skip the post to see if you have commented and have seconded calls for your own blog. Naturally, I do not assume the you need or want my encouragement, but I offer it all the same.
My point about 'friends' in Lebanon is that that is one of the country's biggest problems: anybody and everybody has friends in Lebanon. Indeed, the Lebanese have perfected the skill of telling their 'friends' exactly what they want to hear. Secondly, I have little patience for arguments that proceed by way of 'my friends say' or 'when I was there,' unless immediately followed by a strong qualification.
What struck me about your comments about Lebanon was how different in form and content they were from your observations on Iraq.
The post was about 'popular opinion' so I appreciate your response. However, most are aware of the utter contempt with which Lebanese pols (a veritable consortium of warlords and kleptocrats who are fundamentally feudal through and through) hold 'public opinion.' This is part and parcel of why each faction has its own media operation, although sheer ego has a lot to do with it, too.
Walid Bek can have his minions praising the resistance tomorrow if he so chooses. Ditto, as you like to say, for the various Sunni groupings and their leaders. It is true, however, to say that some of the Islamaniacs in the North may be without a local master (or handler), but even that is an overstatement.
As for 'we haven't tried it'? Give me an Israeli commando any day of the week (and yes, they have tried it) over anybody else.
I will not wade into the anti-Semitism charge, but I assume you are aware of the long history of marriage and trade between Jews and Shia (not to mention Christians and Sunnis) in the area that became southern Lebanon. Indeed, it is one of our current ironies that 'real' anti-Semites like Geagea, Sfeir and Jumblatt and their KSA sponsors can be feted at the White House and certain beltway think tanks, but those who would pause to consider whether we really understand those who have fought an army flying the 'Star of David' are labeled naive or worse.
Anyway, I will heed rb and am's sage advice and not 'go there' and instead will make peace so that I might retreat to my sewer.
Thanks again for your comments and good day.
rb,
My only question to you is why is Mssr. Phares asked to appear before a closed session of Congress? Oh, right. Anyway, Barry Rubin corrected him -- HA are fascists from Spain.
First, I have a hard time seeing the use of mortars and artillery as anything like "kid gloves". From what I have seen reported Hezbollah used most every weapon in their arsenal against the Druze who only had personal weapons.
Second, I think the term militia gets used a lot though not with the same definition for the term. Militia can mean a "body of citizens organized for military service" or it can mean a "non-governmental military organization".
I think that the Druze defenders were the first variety, while the Hezbollah were the second. The difference being in training and weaponry. Citizen militia's do not usually have heavy weapons (machine guns, mortars or artillery) and I have heard no reports that they had them in these battles. While non-governmental militia's are basically unofficial armies and can have, and do in Hezbollah's case, quite extensive arsenals.
I thought there was a sunni plot to assassinate Nasrullah discovered in 2006. Anyway I doubt they'd be as good as Mossad's executive arm.
Soldier, no disrespect but your comments hark back to the attempted assasination of Fadlallah in '85 which killed about 80 Shia coming out of a Mosque. According to some sources (I think Woodward, deffo some american journo) this was a CIA plan financed by KSA (and carried out by an ex-SAS officer, no less). Are you envisaging more of the same?
Hezbollah survived that and a hell of a lot more.
Re: your anti-semitism tag, I have read enough of Nasrullah's speeches to think the charge unfortunately has merit. On the other hand he had met with the NK mob, and Hezb themselves have used Lebanese Jews on some occasions, so maybe they are not beyond redemption.. In addition an english ex-pat living in Beirut told me about attending a marriage between an NY Jewish girl and some Shia dude whose father was some politico in Hezbollah. Both parents attended, which may not mean much, but at least we're not talking about Julius Streicher.
snli: Interesting. So, if Hezbollah are now going to have to fight various AQI elements, doesnt that make them ... sortta... US allies in the struggle against world wide terrorism?
No. Just two scorpions fighting over a bit of sand.
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